martedì 1 giugno 2010

La parentesi di Gutenberg: tradizione orale e tecnologie digitali


The Gutenberg Parenthesis: Oral Tradition and Digital Technologies è il titolo di un simposio tenuto il primo aprile 2010 al MIT di Boston nell'abito del MIT Communications Forum e disponibile nella sezione iTunes U dell'Apple Store all'interno della serie MIT World - Media, oltre che sul sito stesso del MIT World.
Ne riporto qui una breve sintesi, il podcast e la trascrizione automantica (da Boston.com).

Sintesi
Partecipano al convegno James Paradis (moderatore, Robert M. Metcalfe Professor of Writing, and Program Head, Writing and Humanistic Studies, MIT ), Thomas Pettitt (Associate Professor of English, University of Southern Denmark), Peter Donaldson (Ann Fetter Friedlaender Professor of Humanities and Head of the Literature Faculty, MIT Director).

Gli ultimi 500 anni della cultura occidentale possono essere caratterizzati come una "parentesi gutenberghiana", un'epoca dominata dalla stampa tipografica e perciò separata dalla cultura orale che la ha preceduta e dalla cultura digitale che sta emergendo in questi anni, una cultura che ha insospettate analogie con quanto si trova all'altro estremo della parentesi?
L'età di Twitter e YouTube può apparire come un ritorno al Medioevo, come una liberazione dalle costrinzione delle parole imprigionate sulle pagine a raccontare storie con inizio e una fine, mentre la tradizione orale significava testi e performace dinamicamente mutevoli.
Le cose si sovrappongono, i confini sfumano. L'ascesa di internet promette di renderci meno categorici nel modo di percepire il mondo, meno preoccupati delle differenze.
Non si tratta di superare la cultura letteraria, dato che il contesto tecnologico che sostiene i media e la cultura popolare presuppone nei fruitori un livello di comprensione della parola mai sperimentato in alcuna epoca precedente: questa seconda oralità è massicciamente supportata da una sorta di super-letterarietà.
Vittima esemplare della "parentesi di Gutenberg" è stato Shakespeare, le cui opere rappresentate non sempre accuratamente da attori con grande autonomia inventiva sono state poi per secoli feticisticamente imprigionate in edizioni cosiddette autorevoli. Anche se talvolta si è trovata più libertà nella tecnologia del libro che non sul palco di fronte al pubblico.


Durata del podcast: 1:56:39
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Trascrizione automatica (da Boston.com)
" Okay I think we're ready to start. Welcome to the communications forum I'm John parity -- of the program and writing and humanistic studies. And the moderator of this session. Before we start a mention in the communications farm. Let me first thank my long time colleague professor David partner who is not here. And on -- on -- sabbatical. For making many -- arrangements for this farm. Let me also thank god Brad Sewell who's done a tremendous amount of work and publicity in making all the arrangements and appointments and so on so. There are grateful for amount amount. Writing is delighted to partner with the communications farm which has a long history of producing -- conferences and MIT. Anyone had to sit can join the communications farm Manning must set the form web site. And the URL and more information about the form can be found in this brochure. Now you can get it up here."

" They're two upcoming forms. Civics and difficult places. With the Berkman center's Ethan Zuckerman. On Thursday April 15. In the state -- center. And Henry Jenkins is. Farewell with -- founder. Henry is the founder with William. On Thursday April 22 in the -- in the media lab. Our guest this afternoon as professor Tom -- Who present on the Gutenberg practices -- historical patterns and media technology. Cultural production and perception. Professor -- it is an associate professor at the university of southern Denmark's institute of literature and media and cultural studies. Where he lectures on literature and theater in the late medieval and early modern periods. This research is devoted to exploring a performance culture located in the triangle of literature theater and folklore. He has published many studies on customs. Folk drama. And pageantry. Legends and wonder tales. He is also worked extensively on medieval drama and Elizabethan theater including folklorist and approaches to Shakespeare and -- His subject this afternoon is a so called Gutenberg practices. And the question of whether our emerging digital culture. Is partly -- return to certain practices and ways of thinking that were central to human societies. Before the advent of the printing press. And as many collateral media of cultural production. Our distinguished respondent. Commentator. Is professor Peter S Donaldson. Pete is professor of literature at MIT and author of two books. Machiavelli and the mystery of state. And Shakespearean films Shakespearean directors. As well as numerous publications on Shakespeare on film. And digital media. He directs the MIT Shakespeare electronic archive which since 1992. Has used computers to develop new ways of setting Shakespeare across immediate text. Image and now. Related digital product discs include Hamlet on around parts except my -- It cross media and a patient system. And Shakespeare performance and Asia the first phase of a global Shakespeare video archive. Tom all present his argument for the first half -- Pete will then respond and we'll open the farm to discussion. Thank you."

" Thank you very much there's a -- is. And my thanks to -- UN to ticket fool them or room. In the coming to this this forum and to Pudong is joining the the compensation. Right to -- practical work thank you'll for joining us on this unseasonably. Warm afternoon. It will be a conversation. I'm I'm trying to get used to lead the microphone. And and winds in places often often have ones. There's very appropriate I'm on the content in and a silent walk condition which is which which may be discussing later on. I Paris open is into allowing me to give -- perhaps more substantial openings so these two positions than me. Normally be the case with you'll with you'll forums is for two reasons two reasons it's. Mainly they know I'm victor presenting ideas. The discussing ideas if you present you with a an open question I will have they don't so that the PS my plane comes in to Copenhagen airport -- on Sunday morning to be too late for you like an email you. -- question but some. Let's see -- it goes and also on like this opportunity to establish. As a basis for the conversation exactly what I understand via the at the Gutenberg parenthesis. I it is although on more than. The face of media history between oral tradition and diesel technology which is it's suggested by the them. The title and a group you'll incite the O'Toole is -- handoff and hand out reproduces some of the most essential all of these small cluster of -- PowerPoint slides very. Simple elementary PowerPoint slides and prepared for today's presentation that would put into apprentices. Has proved. And elegant. Effective. And therefore a quite provocative way. Of formulating a thesis about the long some history of media history has provoked a good deal all the positive response that what do you look. Negative response since who have been. Presenting ninety hear it here in here in -- in Boston and Cambridge. It's about the deep history. Of media. Far be young to today's. -- These into -- and diesel technology beyond even the old media. Which is what new media people cool film and television. To my to my disappointment we we have a media studies fit in new media so it is a department and didn't. University of southern Denmark and -- and -- to to see that they were doing old -- it was like let's say something about ballots and folk tales and legends from the Middle Ages and lo and behold old media was doomed to lose. I'm very pleased that attitudes to the history of media otherwise who opened yet. So we talked about effectively be the pre history from from that respect the pre history of -- immediate in the fall of printing and writing and and then the human voice. As the means of communication. This idea -- apprentices is suggests that knowledge of what happened to it in that relatively distant past. Can be more than usually helpful. In understanding what's happening in the prison tomorrow might happen in the future. -- And from the of course it's the vice Versa it's important. I do not present myself an expert on the -- media. I'm. Particular interest in the in the Morton. But if studying them -- media. Will help me better understand. My own field. Maybe you can replace most of its. Which is will this apparent physical motion suggests I'm very happy to exchange. Information and insights. With people who are experts in mobile media which is while I keep coming back. Two MIT. The prince's image also explains why as a student of Shakespeare. I've always felt more comfortable. When I'm not studying Shakespeare. In working -- focal. And in working on African American culture. In working on the multimedia. Most of them when teaching regular -- article literature. Of the periods in between. Of the parent that you appear to both Milton and open swift and woods with them decorate and -- great -- to pieces of the all of the west and Canon. -- little overnight salsa imposing I will down play Shakespeare in my initial presentation to individually well we're gonna matured but conversation about about Shakespeare in a moment. These are some of the places we may be going in the course of this forum. I'd like to start with the help of my toe points by exploring the potential value all the Gutenberg prince's idea. In suggesting -- to some important questions. About the new media and their impact which are currently the match up all of urgent discussion. And as my -- PowerPoint shoes. In. A very influential article in the Atlantic magazine in in 2008 Nicholas cup strikingly formidable many people are asking themselves is Google. Making a stupid. And to hit the book coming out on the same subject but I defeated him episode. And a couple of months ago the American -- foundation. Which poses an annual question. To its star studded panel all academics and artists unveiled its question of the 2010 and -- Which -- subsequently been discussed and and reported most of the World Series newspapers. How is the Internet changing the way you think. Translates into my PowerPoint presentation and simplified -- now is change in media technology. Affecting how what I call now minds work which in my payment system for -- I will. Say Coca mission in due course I'd say in mind worked to start just when besides. I simply mean what happens in the minds of the work that the -- the work that the mine -- The calls both these questions big questions the first one assumes that before Google. We weren't --"

" And as someone who was there a time you have my personal assurance. We what. What the question remains is is Google making a -- it -- different what."

" Which is if every arena phrasing off the idea of the second question how is the net change in the way you think. And the Gutenberg apprentices. Arms to both is is yes it is change in the way -- and quite specific. The Internet will ultimately. Make us think. The way medieval peasants. Fault. Or is making a stupid in -- make used to be in a more medieval rustic sort of way. Which may be an improvement. Present conditions. Except of course both questions are problematic and assuming the influence -- the one way. They are guilty of technological determine is. The cardinal sin of media studies. Influence and equally through the all the way. Mind worked and influence -- determine the development of media technology so we could ask with equal that intimacy. Is now stupidity. Making Google. How is the way you think change in the Internet or even what the change in the way we think that created the Internet. We phrasing retracing their questions. And then -- Finally each of each of these questions. -- a vital food ingredient. Needed technology may influenced my work my network my influenced me to technology but -- the way. The influence is likely to pass through or show itself in. The cultural production. Which is produced by their minds work and mediated by that technology I mean the plays he opened the musicals the film's religions -- The pulp fiction the nobles. Poems songs took seven cereals and -- is a new report gossip chat and twittering. Everything that of these mediated by the media and some of us those who think that the but with and the but the play's the thing. Those who are studying media in the sense of what the media media. Our topic our topic is the cultural production. Place themselves historic themselves the books -- so that the novels themselves. And the mind -- and the meetings to and the technology. -- For that production. -- rephrase them as contexts for culture production. In mind in the current. The current PowerPoint. Context we need to know more about. In north base to appreciate the content and the full in the meaning. All that Coca production. So my formulation -- question would be how -- the Internet changing the way you create. Change in the way you -- House changing the way you produce -- And the Gutenberg apprentices console would be it's making me create. A bit more like Shakespeare. Which brings us back to the historical dimension. We are evidently in the middle of a revolution in communications. Which is manifesting impacting on coal production and prompting these questions about its impact on cognition. Started the trend to century with the recording with sounds and filled with with with with sound and -- recording multiplied by radio and television. And now supplemented and in -- By the Internet. And digital technology. And there's a common theme. In common trait. That these developments constitute not just something new with. In the something old that they are challenged to the dominance of print. And the book and reading. I'm not just -- there -- their own debt on now publications with titles like the end of books. The good symbolic images the fate of Reading an electronic age the end of the -- and all of the Pope. Is a sexist on his -- young the book among the articles and it is cold we already. Beyond the book. The book is dead. -- an extra subtitled. Long live the book. A heretical voice in this chorus and famously Jeff Jeff -- is the print is -- books in our digital. --"

" And of course talking about the end of the --"

" I'll I'll wait until it goes some way."

" Thank -- much. Talking about in the book -- of schools to work juxtapose that with the beginning of the book with the emergence of printing and and and the printed book. And and a little one of the influential works on this field in this field is finishing book study from 2006. Which is entitled from Gutenberg to Google. Where his thesis is we -- in the infancy we on now in the infancy of textual revolution comparable to the one initiated by the invention of printing from Movable Type. In the fifteenth century. Two revolutions Gutenberg revolution group revolution. Three phases. The two revelation the two revolutions taking us from one level of technology to another in in them in mediating context. From a low technology -- personal face to place. All mediation with some rising a step -- in technology with Google Gutenberg into an intermediate technology with textual mediation by the printed book. And then the Google revolution to a high technology. With the electronic media digital technology the Internet and CMC could be just mediated to communication. Which suggests of course then jumped opposing me in -- in itself that suggest to opposing these two revolution should be mutually. And lightning. We can starting the Gutenberg revolution -- helped us better understand the Google revolution. In the 1995 position paper for the Rand Corp. James to war. -- was entitled to bite to what was called the information age and the printing press looking backward. To see if it. The book store -- today. He is the conceive of one revolution can help us. To understand the other. And -- from the present from the present to the past. We can use I can use to group revolution through better understand the Gutenberg are removed from what it meant to Shakespeare -- And people are looking minefields off admiralty and Michael Bristol. I have edited to the cliques and stuff is on prince manuscript and performance the changing relations of the media. But in early modern England. They they say they will study the complex interactions. Back then in Shakespeare's time between -- technologically advanced culture of the printed book. And -- still powerful traditional culture based on the spoken world. Would spectacle -- management. Looking back from our own -- looking back from now from the Google aged look to the two Gutenberg revolution put him back from -- own transitional moment as we attempt to negotiate the shift from type of traffic to electronic. And visual media and their office. There are universities who have so wrong so on the basis of jumped opposing. This -- revolution with the sixteen -- revolution with the grenades and revolution. With a 92 to -- reciprocal enlightenment on on both sides. --"

" Famously. Has referred to the Gutenberg galaxy. As the name for the for the for the phrase in between. And that. Those two revolutions can be compared to in this impact on the nature of all hopeful of human thinking and many other things."

" The others have done the same will also along also famously has. Develop this notion of secondary or -- on secondary. Secondary morality. That we don't moving. We are moving into something that resembles even more the past Lou we are going through a period -- print. Moving into a second to real -- which takes is in many ways back to the primary or reality all the pre print period and that's movies onto something else. Because this is the notion that not we -- not merely moving off in technology on in to a foot fate is. But that third phase of the media history is taking us back. In many ways to the the period between. Another -- and -- Leo Marcus you know striking study called cyberspace. Relations. Has noted that things in in modern electronic editions attacks are becoming more fluid less stable. More subject to intervention. By people who cope with them and that therefore. They jump to that situation is taking is back to how things work. In the age of manuscripts in the age -- nature of Shakespeare period. With text would not as stable as they became in the meantime. Life."

" Some of you may recall from the conference here last year the program borrowed a very effective. Cartoon from the Denver Post. Suggesting that we are moving back the future is taking his back into the past of the suggestion that. The that the suggestion that the nailing down twenty. That's the right -- I reversion to the limits is the limited communicative capacity is of off stone tablets. So we -- the future is taking us back to the cost and the most important figure in this field perhaps is John Foley. From the center for oral tradition at the University of Missouri. Who has instigated this massive. Project halfway is of the mind. With a splendid website. Which -- us the similarities. Between pre literate. Morality the year of the worlds of all traditions and the post the post bulletin book. The moment and all of digital texts which which are accessible on the Internet don't Cody has set. There's talk about the fundamental similarities between human kinds oldest. And most pervasive communications medium or tradition. On the one hand and human kinds newest medium the Internet that the two -- Reasonably juxtaposed and then finally mine -- at the university of southern Denmark -- up with this a delightful phrase the the Gutenberg apprentices. Suggesting that as in the sentence we have been through -- sentence the sentence which is the history of the media. Has been interrupted. By the age of print by a printing a book phase. And that insofar as we are leaving that -- phrase we are going back. We are going back to the situation before that. Without any implications that the period in between was a waste of time -- going in the wrong direction. -- misguided does not print this is any pejorative sense it's like in a sentence. If -- speaking ascend into writing a sentence you interrupt for a while with a second thought to add to your first thought you then resume of coastal. At the end of apprentices and the sentence goes on but that sentence will be irrevocably changed. By what has happened. Well at least I think so in the and in the -- in between does not does not -- immediately digression or something with one. Tools -- very appropriate of course in the sense that the princess is an idea and the prints this the brackets as as symbols. Were themselves the products all the age of print and reintroduced in appreciated in the but in this in the in the sixteenth century. -- kind -- from. Qualifications. To this to this picture. In the sense that says it doesn't all happen in 16100 it it is very gradual. It comprises many different aspect something's happened at one time when something's happened that's another. And when I say 16102000. I'm referring to like two main stream to the mainstream culture of Western Europe and subsequently of North America -- They'll be all the time tables. Four. Subculture is. Within cultures. And they'll be different timetables for different cultures. His wife -- what I study folklore I'm effectively starting. The culture of people who have not yet into the -- even though the making. The mainstream. The June that the majority culture around them has and -- the the -- princess is also why we may come back to this. African Americans. For a -- of a culture is so in physical can be seen in new light. From this perspective that it in America that have been different subculture -- it into just princess. At different times and there's been interest in discrepancies between the that's a come as a consequence. In the if the time I've got left so I'd like to that is the basic situation I'd like take a bit look acts exactly what it is. The characterizes. The the parenthesis in the in the time that I have out of focus on what's happening in the print assists. But the implication is that before the princesses -- off the -- things were different. And they would different in the in the same way and as far as I can I'll be on trial and be consistent and sort of moved slowly up the diagram. In those. Various. Levels this is this at several situation to focus on the -- on the Central Park it's extraordinarily simple. But I seem to find patents it seems a bit there have been changes round about 600 -- 2000. They have been changes on -- all three headings. Under the heading of the mitigating context and -- production and the cognitive context. And they seem to be the same changes. And the second change seems to reverse. The first change so as -- say this is this is nothing. Pretentious intellectual it's depicted but it boils down to some very some very basic things that would be gone -- so harmful to the mediating context the he would just containment. Woods have been imprisoned. In the Gutenberg princes have wondered when things of fool you the way his words have been regiment. Thanks this technology words -- regimented in two lines of the same link from the same -- those lines on. Structured into a blow up. Of text that that block of text to surrounded by a margin. Within a pay each those pages are folded and gathered. Denounce stitched together. -- several gatherings are put together in a book and glued together and that book is bound. And then put in compass. It may have -- to put into a dust jacket and it may be put into it a slip case or in some cases it may be provided with -- metal costs. To stop the -- getting out it seems. Extraordinary level extraordinary level of containment and is not time but that we do the same thing with leftist. When you run to -- someone you run on the paper you fold the paper you put the paper and envelope with -- becomes an inclusion."

" And you seal him equipment and send though we know we don't. We -- in pristine woods and we're putting words into things and with regard to printing how'd they get that the woods gets into those. Contagious. Brian something we called a press."

" And as a very good reason why it's called -- press it was Gutenberg who from the golden -- didn't make many changes to existing machinery. The press was previously that same device was previously used for pressing -- out -- some grapes. And into barrels and bottles. Just questions -- adapting the technology. So whereas previously that press was used for hopeful pitching Jews out of out of vegetables out of comfortable lives in grapes into back into barrels so now we are using rules the gluten gluten gluten used to press. Two. Press the words. In onto the pages. In the book into the into container into into volumes. Which -- contents. Hold the whole vocabulary is that -- Containment and then just to finish it off when we buy one of those books full of words. Even -- on if you like confined within the book because both of those books on design for what's cool immersive reading. We ourselves we counsels we -- ourselves sales in the Arctic and we -- lost in the book here's the is convention phrase. So it's a questions at Gutenberg prints is the question all. Confining containing. Words. And didn't just awkward time for this but it's it. One thing that makes this change all the more striking people -- but me. Make the connection with Google book lists firm. Is that similar things seem to be happening. In other forms of production and hopefully -- you know but you know the media. Or all happens around about the same time. Well let's get confined in books wrong about the same time -- plays get confined to stages. -- will pupil gone wrong stage is necessary in them -- state and staged confined confined in the theater is and performances because the sort of in venues. Music is performed in a constant pounding in concept holds opera house is. In orchestra pits. Music is printed in behind stadiums. In study was behind bars. And you need the right. To get them out again it's it's extraordinary influence with some sense since -- containment. That was the media themselves. And it has its impact on what has produced for those media and and communication in those media. And I would I would use this diagram just to summarize that just about right. If -- like that was the media contains. But then the the product itself. Is contained it to separate it is console. From office this is an indication of what's going on in in this in this diagram. That the squares indicate that -- This period that the same transition sees the emergence of some that we take for granted -- that is the individual work. That the the notion that there that that the two a viable product has to be a work a story with a beginning and the middle and an end the notion that a piece of music asked after the cost of certain amount of time. The most of the picture is one picture it is a picture of just one thing and doesn't scroll over -- war and in and in gold all kinds of sequences of action. And that and that works are complete. In the notions it's eight given a given work isn't a fragment. It has a beginning and end it doesn't just kind of one the wrong and doesn't it does it just stopped arbitrarily. As things might have been before. And at this things made -- will be me will be off to books become. Isolated they are not based on sources they don't plagiarize. It works they on the ball much. Imitated that much influence while the works they don't original they belong to the man who creates them. And then when they are created they don't cost on they -- mediated. With -- as little change is possible. Before and after of the year the parenthesis. Change wasn't normal interference was normal. Works weren't defend it. From external interference. By some kind of the imaginary imaginary war. So this summarizing them brutally you know just just to get to cover the ground. The first time around. The media on contained. The works. On content and I forgot to say I I don't think kind news that the idea of a framed picture. Was suddenly we take that for prompt to picture as well frames. Roughly the same time -- Includes two in books and then finally -- lost big topic is. I anticipate that there is some connection so I wouldn't say which way the connection is. There are changes at the same time."

" In the way we look at the world the way that people see the world. This is the -- To them the time was hesitant to use of their own but took took the way people perceived the way the way."

" But it's it's going to mine main -- Bogeys. It is not me. Got to say at the startled look this isn't my own work. I'm I'm in a pretty apparent physical post -- tactical mode where Ryan really -- redeploy. I just want the people and this too. I came across this this these in my own doctrine to this notion I came across this extraordinary idea in a French Boca Google book by us with skoler cool humid -- she too cool to prevail. Acumen Poland's detects. Very interesting shift in the way we see you bodies. And she also links it to the difference between morality and literacy. -- book bodies on how we see them we construct. We don't see the words the world as it is we perceive the world. When we represented and treat the world in terms of preconceived. Structures."

" Structures and shapes in our minds. Those -- change."

" And the changes seem to be correlates -- To these changes in media technology and and -- production and -- with regard to the podium of the body the body is how we see it. And how we see it changes. And this there will say that so I've chosen some sort of these are administration's wrong documentation. But to the but the basic point is that within the -- assists. Which is -- is theory with the movement within. The -- mites and of course but in the age of literacy in print the body is seen as. An envelope. We represented the -- we perceive the body we treat the body. As an envelope. And the well being of the body is a dependent on the integrity of that envelopes the there is no no improper in grass or -- into the boat people from the body. And our culture and this correspondence you know coach of to -- session. The period off the Gutenberg apprentices strangely corresponds to the the notions of anti kept. All these things we were told to do and not to do without -- all that upbringing. Don't expect him 330 mouth with your story with your mouth open don't -- don't go full copy of mouth when you -- cup you'll notice when you -- keep a stomach and particularly in these together. All that. Law that business team then. Came in with a book. It seems extraordinary. Think things change mean etiquette changes attitudes change but the at the idea that. Now what is our envelopes and that is it is to control that -- book which is essential board. Even the way we dress stressing. We get into the sordid details but a days and or full containment of the -- by changes including."

" Not least undergarments. Both listening to get in Rome. Up to two small point 222 remaining points at the recruitment the same thing applies to space. There's -- correlation the way we see space seemed to have changed. Over the same period and perhaps in the same way. The way we look at the world the way at the way we make maps the way we orient house bills that in the physical environment. I have provided you McCain. Illustration all of them proof. In the Gutenberg apprentices. The world is seen in terms of conclusions. We look at nations. Communities. Columns states. Houses. In the people who. Keep us keep other people out. All of now inclusion. Whereas before and often the world was scenes -- movement of avenues. And junctures. And just and a girl in the -- my administration is concerns navigation. In the princess navigation. Is orange uses charts. Printed books. And navigation takes the formal orient in months old in relation to space and enclosed space. One shot on positions on a map whereas prior to that people navigate -- navigation books navigation hates. Where instructions on wind went to go to support when he got to stop it. What what land not a painful is all pocketbooks these dollar routier's what is. Navigation to the -- following instructions. On -- to suddenly it went to to what went hateful. A given landmark and say it seems to be returning. In the vision of the world around us that soon. We have with GPS and a month on my final point on to just -- Intuit. That but it it's probably props to because today. The final containment. And accusing the accusing the book from accusing the Gutenberg apprentices of containing everything. Of making a CC a with in terms of containment and the lost in the biggest. Is categories. Categories. The notion that we see the world in terms of categories. That's. People can be categorized in terms of race. In terms of gender in terms of speeches. Will lose big decline it's that wasn't always the case. Medieval medicine distinguished regions. The men and -- for. The great folks we all approaching that perception. With great difficulty and pain. You know time human medieval fool didn't distinguish to show off between. Man -- animal. Man and material. Man and machine. And that we that we are now approaching any kind of pre. Preview from the medieval notion that so the borders are. Possible that things overlap. And we'll that is that is my conclusion. Flip -- My -- Under that last hitting. Is that the Internet will make us. Less categorical. In the way we perceive the world. It would make us less. -- They're so worried about distinctions between the human -- the defined. The human in the machine that human in the animals living in the -- of black in the white the male and the female. Between writing and speech. To make us. Less aggressive. About transgressions of categories. In -- way when it's Wednesday we are -- back the instead it will make this -- like medieval peasants. I think through that it may be some some healthy aspects to it. --"

" Turn over defeat."

" Yeah."

" Thank you. Well was a little unclear. Exactly whether this would be a three way discussion -- response and how much you attempt to deal with Shakespeare so sort of winging it a little bit. But I think that. First bullet went when it and ways. Wonderful presentation. I should say even it's exaggerations I totally healthy. And not helpful and help us to get a sense when and how the book in the regime of the book and other such. Total -- machines can weigh upon creativity. I know times already in advance. Said there's an upside -- it -- and that looks looks -- the merely pensions for the compression and and restriction. And police and meaning. And that indeed there are. But I found this a very very hopeful talk and and I love the the metaphors and the visualization that you brought. That he -- this. I thought Thomas can speak about Shakespeare and about this sort of what he's saying. Arch fetish guys book which is the Shakespeare Foleo and you will a little bit. Later but many are you gonna talk about that later worked. -- well okay -- but I in his start with the so I mean as an example because this was this start in some ways is the symbol. Of what a lot of people actually that's effect facsimile you wouldn't think of the collected works of Shakespeare which this is not -- facsimile. Condition but the big book with all the plays. By an authoritative. Editor. And commentary by authoritative scarlet. Pat and it went along the social practice. The Shakespeare lecturer we don't actually have Shakespeare lectures and electric we have discussion sections and other kinds of things like that. And even. Shakespeare's students' writing multimedia hyper. Text essays on Shakespeare in the in these days but when I began. That put the figure of the authoritative. Professor at the front of the room like mean right now. With a hundred people morrow alas the official interpreter. A sacred book which had a unique and unitary. Meaning. Or if it didn't the aim was to. What's to come close to that as possible which had. Under reactionary and authorized printed form which is the historical facts to not actually make it possible. To specify that form at least that's what one was after as an editor. And so but in the mind of a generation of people went through. This regime -- still common in many parts of the world like perhaps. Very close to here and there certainly. But. Either university. But there wasn't marriage in their profession that kinda peaked in the mid. 1980s and had a number and initiate -- profession. At a numbers in putts. Who won was it was that. The the fact of variation of texts right half of Shakespeare's plays. Appear in two different versions that they're not always very different sometimes there are only only. What he's saying nominally different. No no major differences but but half the plays appear in court which is small. And Foleo which is that size. After Shakespeare's at 36 -- Published after Shakespeare's death 66 years after seven years have 162 and three. During Shakespeare's lifetime about half the place appear in court and sometimes they are surprising difference is part for example. To be or not to be that is the question -- most famous lines appears in first quarter. -- To be here not to -- me. There's that point. And it's it's kinda hard to imagine it's a it's a good example. Variation that's potentially meaningful because instead of it being the question it's more -- the point. And the answer and so but and there are a profound differences have it is as a place for which there are three significantly different. Texts. First -- technical and -- and -- king Lear has to a Fella that's fascinating differences between 1620 U. Coroner and the Foleo in hundreds of individual words I'm liking the here and comments not a matter of postings or. Or -- long passages but individual words seemed to have been. Changed and we don't always know which way since the data publications not necessarily the date of the underlying documents show. So it didn't impact in techs who studies the use that word at a mission. Because you don't know incentives added or omitted if you're if you mobile if you don't know the dates of the text or the or the pro life or this -- don't know. How they descended from on the -- is one thing. The tax buried a lot and the knowledge of this variation -- hidden in impossibly tiny print at the end of the book. And that nearly every used and you need a little bit of course -- to understand that that that that was one. One the one thing. The other was the question of performance how do we how we acknowledge adequately -- became -- Stratford as an actor made his way up as a as a writer yes you -- he took on the heirs of a gentleman and wrote sonnets and they were. Published a problem with probably with more. More supervision -- and tension and some of the other. Intensive Shakespeare. That he was a man of the theater and in this theater. That the variation is it is it is inescapable. Because theatrical productions vary from one. -- to the next right from one performance to the next they can't help but there it that way and of course they vary even. Perhaps more grossly in one production to the next in one language and that's the one cultured taking up the text. And I'm understanding and a different way so variation seem to be in many many ways cultural textual perform it. Something that needed acknowledging. Now and two and some of the steps taken and I think this would would be a very good example. Words of the idea that words were being constricted in certain kind of way and that we could loosen. The bonds of prevent this this wouldn't use the word at the time. And and and create something. With more flow more inclusion and and mark honesty to the fact that what the human labor of -- play. That is like and how subject it is to variation and two imperfections and all sorts of levels whether it's the infection of the writer. Who can come up with a word like -- Cox that no one's ever heard before -- since and some advocates into the text. Or or other performers or the editors and so did it seem difficult within that within the margins of the book to. Give adequate adequate form to this until I wanted to also look at another kind of book very for a minute which is. But the very. Well known -- started trying to find alternate. Alternate ways within that women -- the bound book to give readers access to. The fact of variation to the no work out this is at this by my friend of Michael -- You -- cruise and this is the the parallel looking here. Now he thought the way. Two to really represent the facts. Came here with -- take. -- first -- and the Foleo version. And you put them side by side but since the books are of different sizes. You had he had to develop this method very complicated technological that caught cut. Cut line. And and facsimile right. So first you take with a picture of the page then you cut its -- reader can cross right over from the for the comparable parts of that. Of the court -- in -- right. That there are different sizes so -- white space in between. And very very hard to beat -- eligibility was a great deal of a problem so what Michael did for the next stage. Was to publish this book along with. Unbound that the coast of the three taxed so that you could shift that men and compare and eventually reading. He thought there was rather awkward. So. He actually. They eat it it in a sense renounced the practice of editing at all within the within the confines of the -- or a facsimile. And he joined our early efforts to find a way out of this. That out of the confines of the book. It's he joined our team and MIT. In in the hopes of finding. A way of representing this variation in and it's I wanted to give you just a few examples of what. The kind of thing we were doing that and joins maybe preface it by saying. Parentheses. Then securities rated talk about the good and for bird parentheses and I kept thinking for the first hour and thought it about -- talking. That there's a kind of parenthesis around that period about it and that -- that I'm about to exemplified which is the period of hypertext hyper media. Had standalone hypertext helping me. Well as the novelist Robert covert declared the end of books in 1994 in New York Times and in 2002. You still can get an on line text to have nick keeping it keeping him alive and not. The article. I think -- the end of hypertext or about. The fading of the golden age of hypertext which last. So embarrassingly small period from -- in the 198014. 2008 to photograph the hypertext for emphasis as well. A -- and we may have been Google parenthesis because the free as we think it is we may find that it's. Very confining in the end who knows we don't know but they'll always be this tension between something. That. Confines in its own way. And a larger reality. I was I was gonna quote song and prayer at the completion of the temple is something like. But hand. But can this house ever hold. The intensity of the electorate so you know you have something completed. But with the recognition that there's no way. That the confinement is going to work in that part of the point. You know part of the point is that. There's a great deal outside. The effort to confined so that's what we start we start with three faces -- On workstations. And we we actually have developer and designer. Ed Moriarty who took us from this work is I think much of it. Maybe all of it but. A great deal with we are grateful to him and we did this when it's kind of a secret reason it's because. The three faces of Shakespeare actually represent three different states. Of the engraved portrait because Shakespeare is important enough. It was important enough to get this right -- that -- was removed and worked on a put back. The twice. And I've -- most people can't tell. There's a hair strand loose in one. Probably -- we don't have a resolution to tell which one it is. And in one whose head looks like cut. John the Baptist on a platter. And then the artist consumption dating so we wouldn't look quite so cut off -- From his buddy intellectually looking. Fellow prosperous gentlemen type with a big brain. And and rock star of the medium of print. No one had ever had a full page portrait of themselves. Under on the front piece that that it they had found. Both face portraits and Spencer's -- had a portrait but it took up a tiny part of the page. Shakespeare as a pop star in the sense that he he dominated what the book was and in -- seen -- we could open that show you. But you couldn't get beyond the fact of variation even in this medium so -- we based our work on the idea that. It was the variation in the struggling against the attempt. To -- words. That needed addressing by. By displaying their variation but also there a variation into media. Dreamt dove in on dreamt of in Shakespeare's time we wanted to have the text relate to -- that it's after life and art and illustration. And in videos from our own time course we ran into lots of copyright. Province some of them are not actually some of these now. As -- would be no surprise to you. So so this is an example of what you might call the X. Expanded focal way of trying to break out of that -- a mode in some ways which is -- even on in our own work. But we tried to it well and so we had a choice among the electronic tax on the left so there's the principal. Multiplicity. And on the right. And you click and you could get -- there. That we salute -- in the screen. Foleo which is they -- failure affects him doing blow it up and stuff. And up but you could just get the earlier. Court or additions if they existed. Of a given play and juxtapose them with the with the Foleo or click on an art field and give viewers a thumbnail. The stream of -- you could click on those and you get -- all all linked to either that exact line. Or as we sort of compromised every two or three lines right we decide where it will -- resorts is went. And it noticed it was still tech centric. Right so we're kind of radiating out from the Shakespeare tax to one way to look at what's. That in fact creating a more monsters. Are kind of worship of the author by you know -- being able to move out from one line to various resources. But we thought of it as liberating and I think it is in some ways it gives you a lot of information about what different lines have net. Now you notice some. Maybe you don't know if it is that I don't know if that's visible that I wanted to show you are chosen and some you referred me to recognize my my favorite example. The first. Letter the first phoning. Well it isn't really it's it's a it yeah it is -- the first words spoken. In Shakespeare play. In the Foleo because the time this comes first is the word Boson. And the composite or who was working that today. The compositing -- here's the -- the worst of the five. Mashed but the letter upside down a bit decorated. The big decorated letter that would be given would be the first thing that you so and you're. Turn to an actual playing. So. What the set and going back what this edition allows you do is look at any of the four before separate states. Even within the Foleo therefore separate states of the first page. You know and one of them contains this egregious error. Well it's it's it it's not yet now they call a significant variations -- you know which way. The letter really ought to go up but also access is a kind of -- any of the book because. Is that the the paradox here through this miserable copy this -- must be. One of the worst pages of the Foleo in existence as it is all fox and damaged and other places what do damaged. And it has this been in this awful typo. Was laboriously. Not cut out and -- pasted it into a full page and found and the join between the bad copy that the collector had and the book was disguised with a red line all around it. So even early on it as the eighteenth centuries you're had a fetish is nation of the Shakespeare text so that even a bad one. Was something that people are struggling and paying immense amounts of money so I just -- at this this is an example of that. First quarter -- haven't we we've we photographed all seven of the but individual copy -- seven exists and you can click on those then we have an an art collection of 15100. Images from. 17100. To 19100. This is the copying. Photograph. -- in the skull we. This have been illustrating the line the last where you are kind knew him. -- but there are others and we found that many 30% of the illustration in that period was comical. Plus here's a guy. Holding it to rather gigantic Neanderthal. Skull this is nineteenth century and then. In the corner there assume that we'll check in the rooster meditating on death and it hurt us he's got scholar you don't -- more recently deceased. Comrade. Adding that stands and much greater danger of -- it. Death then the actor Harrison wolf. With his giant had kind of imitating Shakespeare's. Had so many many comic versions is one of the things you find when you study variation in in the text and in their performance. -- we also wanted to have video we had a little trouble getting copyright Heidi we've got. -- look at permissions but we -- get permission from a mr. Burton for the to display the average Burton -- is a very fine one. And we wanted -- at least exemplify. The concept."

" I don't who would do it well. The king's death when did you wanna let me. Being."

" And left schoolyard. I -- that it."

" And then we've we. Another when we got was to Swedish job. Television version directed by right now they send. With stone cells guard has. -- how much and his latest recession. Wrong."

" And."

" These become the only words and Swedish that I now so okay. Out. Having having done that you know we will have retain two point in our work where. We had -- opportunity to expand. And we decided not to expand. That model. At least not now and in the original model. There was there's certain reasons about how expensive it is to handling thousands and thousands of Luntz when and under which it may be more. Possible improvement easier to automate today. But we well what we realize what we want something that was a little less there's two things right a little less text driven in more performance driven. And also something that would. That a deal with Shakespeare. As interpreted elsewhere in the world and we have very fortunate conjunction. And the possibility of -- grant to do this with the development of the collection already taking place. It in in. Our collaborator Alex -- collection that he was developing at Penn State for which he'd already begun to get online permissions before he had who have. Putting them -- so we now partners in this and surprise. And and this is a video centric archives right so it does not actually contain a text of Shakespeare. Very contains. At present to. 25 to thirty full. Full video records. It of productions from a number of countries look noted. Japan Taiwan. And people's republic and with. Korea coming so East Asia. And so that the blue so that's what we decided was a good move to take two steps. Away from the domination of the taxed. And that's also. That this also converged -- The understanding the changing up understanding of Shakespeare in Asia I mean one way of the candidates have like in in Japan and in 19051910. They would send people to Russia to study how Stanislavsky. Put on the cherry orchard put on another. Kind of a play and -- the exact gestures. By 1996. These Asian countries have become centers of innovation and Shakespeare in my own view is that unrivaled. Centers -- innovation -- farm or interest in things. Happening. In Japan or in Taiwan and China. Than in Great Britain as far as opening up the text in new understandings so that's what we wanted to do this has been one of our interfaces for that. I've got another one is there's. And it's a matrix you know and so -- with -- and our second version we're gonna start with some version of the video matrix and you click on line. And you've brought into. Video performance itself. A second stage the randomized filling in dimensions we randomized. Will be different and randomized third stage it won't be randomized but it will. Conform as the sophisticated. Online things now to cheer -- choices to your own interest to that pathways that -- maybe. That he may be following and third thing which -- can exempt the fact is we're working on it now. Is that we wanna tip we wanted to find a place for sort of scholarly Shakespeare in series archives within media ecology. That includes. Examples of interactive war community. Uses out of video that far transcend what we can do in quantity and also frankly in design. A space in which ordinary people and put up there material enjoy it communicated around it. And of course something of the video sites and in YouTube in particular. So one of -- that goes out the new project is to be open. Not only to try to be open to other cultures to the variation -- in performance. But also. To lose the contribution and communication of that contemporary. Social aspects of the -- and -- and panicked a bit at least the first start will be. To have YouTube. Connection to within the archive where people can post that there YouTube playlist and where we also. But engage a wider public in sifting material that would be useful for. Four online essays or in marching interior we have so -- it has just and the taste out ways in which we've. Tried to go beyond that. And parenthesis. But at the same time I think with their realization that. -- I don't know if we can say that we've and now and you'd freer world. In every way you know there's going to be more restrictions and Norway's. In which. What it's it's and one of one of I think this culture education department's books is called freeing Shakespeare's words and that's that's the title very much -- In Constance with -- server and give an example of ways in which one could try to -- Thank you."

" Thank you -- Excellent that combination of presentations here because no one has the abstract theory and the other has the concrete examples and I think it's very exciting work. So what I'd like to do now is open a session to. Discussion William. -- actually we would like people to speak into the ion microphones so I could."

" So indeed thank you both arm also for phrasing of mythological fundamental -- logical issue here from. How hard to fly to 304 rounder than 50000. You is very different data and repeat did a great job of showing incredible variability of circled stable era. On the Tom pattern recognition is a tricky thing and I think I wanna address that question to you. The practices I can take a lot of the same symptoms you've offered and read them. I'm capturing we can sort of Muppets but you know just to say if we think about before the fifteenth century we can talk about an era of embodiment. Gathers containment that is containment through the body. The body writes the word. The church the body of the church is the storage facility forests are -- is very much about -- sites. We could think about the period after the fifteenth century in terms of we can capture that in a word. Like the whole career smack right futility to fix to get precise mathematical mean. Three point perspective it's an invention this is much is the book you pointed to the frame. My difficulty with your analysis comes at the other side of the practices where we are today. Because I would say well if we think about Google Google's a great example. We might think about the shift from the charisma. The notion for precise count sellable fixable stable mathematical order. To support the local -- which is perceptual which works in the world the computer. It's all term you -- uses it but it never really gets deployed very effectively until the coming to the computer the ability to process the algorithmic is not about. Certainty or -- city it's about a formula it's about -- procession to the procedural and certain. And Google's a great example that because they change the algorithm I don't know twice a day here twice a week or something. To keep everyone guessing about what's really gonna come up you can't game you can't predict it. Photo -- it would be great counterpart to three point perspective photo sent to its. Melding in morphing of hundreds of photographs into one's sort of seeding space there is no point of view. Pay hikers notion of the that the world picture is is he shattered -- destroyed there there is no subject object relationship that's discernible. That was a project of the fifteenth century -- words. But we don't have that anymore and it's not in the same way that it was embodied before the fifteen. We can talk about it was something like the project of the encyclopedia which which works very well on the and they Eric prince. But Wikipedia is something where. Your contributions are there but constantly being repositioned by an algorithm so I would argue that. By -- by talking about apprentice is what you. What what secluded there is the computational. The air that were in that allows for very different order of at and in fact the algorithmic which is something that starts to intervene between costs between the subject in the object. There's a principle there's process there's a formula there. That often we don't see. But that actually is doing the mediation between us and the phenomena that we that we encountered him."

" Thanks so much take a tumble but not militants or use seemed quite encouraging. Interactive T centric -- sexual. And things being being mixed up together."

" I've used also -- in Cuba often picked and so on. Life. Appoint I've noticed is that there's a change in the there's a change in the way the boat is represented. Involved in in in connection with this do in -- the prince's. For example please keep the body of Christ -- in in the crucifixion. It does if you're talking about involvement in abstract terms from ones to think you were very much of it the actual vote in the picture random. Which is for a few more hope. The actual representation of bodies. Shifts. In the late Middle Ages and going into this it concentric -- board the board of crisis. Was originally very angered. People what he was a woman's two coordinate with the cross with the U. The limbs following exactly the shape of the cross of the the the the body is articulate the policies a conjunction of limbs. And joints and then as we move as well as a correspondence has as we move into the period widow as it happens books are being printed. And I'm becoming more important then the body of Christ takes on them a more enveloping shape duplicate it -- the -- away from across. The greater emphasis on the on the rib cage as a as a as a whole -- hollowing out. Envelope the the daily Saxon is in the and notional of the board should be impenetrable. And told them. Essence is coming out of the book -- it was a shifted. And that that business all of that those portraits of and -- women with those distended bellies. Who's kind of the kind of a fashion present in women with them with with very pro trooper and stocks. At this time and that doesn't seem people's because due pregnant it wasn't because they were standing in particular what. Good -- because it that's just that's just know the female vote because became we seem. For a while. I can I could respond I can respond to -- in terms of actual --"

" Rather than process is open boredom and and I -- need to explore further the points you make you -- to respect and algorithms and and the like who think -- think to explore that."

" Thanks very much for talks -- country's -- Is variously I have to say -- Gutenberg princesses a concept that's the stuff with these the last few weeks -- thing about it and I had like him the idea that there's something about oral culture. That can tell us something new about today I was thinking about it. Certainly -- everything about gossip works. Doesn't that seem similar to some of things that happened on -- the kind of communication in the way. That it's this sort of information plus -- social relationship right you choose to join this of that stream of things coming through. But you know I didn't. There's also sort of FM morality I think the world calls for the words of returning to with digital culture as we lose all -- photos. All of sudden. And it reminded of the the waste storage is is tricky bit one of the things I guess my question though is it's really it's two Williams in the sense that. -- you know that how do we see what comes after the Francis right and that. If morality to -- evil peasants as an image before hand and and friends and then the Internet. Is the process for trying to talk about it seems to me that. With the media will present -- the peasant trying to say something right he's sort of limited to who came here of from the soap box right in the middle of the town square. And that -- things print enabled. Was. Getting that that opinion that voice. Across much greater distance right there's a different kind of permanence and a different kind of mobility. That comes with friends and it seems to me that one way to read then this next step. Is a quantum leap in exactly that same prints kind of thing. That there is even greater mobility. And instead of being constrained by the package. It's easy to copy and and multiply system. Mobility and multiplicity is sort of what comes with the Internet. And so it in that sense it seems to me. I'm not sure right there if if it's a prayer maybe -- more open parentheses are bracket together and I'm not sure. That -- in the previous and goes with the before it comments I guess my question is you know. In what sense it is if you could give us more of a sense of how. This understanding morality in the mean evil president peasants. Can give us a greater sense of what's happening. In media today. Maybe -- some other examples -- categories and boundaries going down but where where can we see that."

" I guess here -- there's a phrase I should've been introduced into my presentation perhaps button that. The post parent typical period is a reversion to the pre apparent political -- high level of technology. You've -- to go to take that into account they're up there are going to be aspects of this which all print. Which will be which will take print to a higher level you'll be taking taking the -- of the advantages of print tool that will open in so doing. But he will undermine other aspects of print like the -- supreme like the unit like the stability. Of all all of the message. Which will take us back to the the year of the pre pre pre period it isn't is it isn't just a question but of the recipe fool. Pre print morality. Coming back in the form of pros post print morality. It is in the full text with texts are changing texts are. -- not getting out of control tactics solve. Becoming pretty. They are escaping from the confines. All of the book it may well be. That they will be more texts anyone Tex will be multiplied more any any one I mean text -- and speak -- anyone text will be multiplied. As a text and people -- as a text open text well previously. But in becoming move file and didn't end in being multiplied. He'll become less stable it will be free for any -- the person who mediate who can change it. Add to it. Subtract from it make make it 60 becoming -- about 60 becoming fluid. As a as a part of that protest and the other part of its. Well. Think thinking off the thinking off the medieval peasant the medieval peasant was also Mubarak of course he knew he could go from envisaged when -- the before the spread of a robot. That's not slip hasn't and its Acosta. Could take his -- from one village to another and spirited on to the group of people it was it was to move move on -- that sentence will be. The room appropriate changed each time it's time he told it. Just as things will change every time they get repeated. On the means that from from from from from one's silent about it. I like I'm I'm grateful for the reference to two categories them because I've been thinking about the implications of -- this forum. Will for the spread of new -- but of remembrance. And I think that is one -- the medieval peasant. -- different sources of information different kinds of bush and different rumors came to him in different ways. But I've not certainly had a hierarchy of trust in those different sources. In the meantime we have had a harder on it we've had appeared. Well I don't know I think we've said but it must be true average newspaper. The prince has convert from federal authority. On certain kinds of news but now we going back to medieval situation we can't really sell newspapers are becoming more light room. In the sense that they don't -- hoping that that made available in the same kind of sources and kind of for the media has room was. It's it is hard to make it is now harder process itself. What we read in newspapers room and we're -- rumor has it isn't with the civil authorities newspapers that is that the category the category of unofficial medium -- in -- medium in the category of official media. Is breaking down and we it was what we are we on losing that higher -- he -- categories. News breaking down lines and see them -- Very much should we council now because that's what confusing here."

" I am hi I'm nick Seagram Princeton and compared mutinies and -- questioned about. Well about one of the images that you should actually which is the enraged musician because I think it heads interesting. Ramifications. Degrees with them and -- excellent. Tool. Is it is it on the handle it is on the handle -- open but it. Was the question is sort of about about history and about. Period making because there's a lot of you know things that start happening at roughly the same time as you mentioned and of course what's implied in here is that these things also happen in particular places not and other places the parenthesis is around. The you know the musician inside matter on the people outside and so mr. incentives I think was impressions of what you said that the future comes at different times to different to different people. And I -- and it was about how. Useful it is maybe to think about. This can. This period of containment and such -- contained away as if everyone at one time it is doing the same thing. There's a sense of which. And we're talking William brought up this big picture Little Richard quest this certainly related but it seems like. Reckoning this historical period. Does. Bowlers over some other kinds of reckoning that might happen for example in this image of class but of race and gender and all of these sort of containment that we might do as a security your response."

" I'm very thank you very much Ross my question and -- our attention the spectacles I went very likely. I'm very confused agree ovaries in mind street 21 condition. And there's more to get this -- about this and this also helps me. To emphasize you remind him drinks as a point which could have been a game could be make more more clearly. The question of the incidence of the timing. Different cultures and so the princes at different times and -- exit presumed at different times within any one culture. Different subcultures. -- and took the princes at different times so anyone moment. They'll be people inside and people outside. And Coca office. In rage musician I've always done -- a very good way of thinking making me think. About what's going on because. This is the minutes so it's us who -- way of saying that. Some forms of bonds on becoming apparent technical. Is that the musician in the window is the Italian leader of the -- gotten orchestra. And the point to point -- often don't not to -- of -- but the point -- is making is that there's a growing war. Between the fine arts. And the street. And this is healthy minds -- see that -- one -- those parallel developments to the you know. The opening of the of the princess so that it that is that is quite correct. -- That musician is well in the print -- going to make the point in patient check I've reversed the picture. Chris -- didn't realize that there with the prince of Soviet people -- He put the -- on the right. But it's either to me now is that the turnaround. -- The point -- but they see the point is that it's it's about music and words. So within the practices we have the we have the opera musician. Who you can just see is playing his music from a print its goal. And who will be producing performing in the opera in a confined opera house to which only the elite have. Have access and people who have the right taste the right money have access and even the blind balancing in the street outside. She is singing songs which is also selling songs. Which don't print it. She's selling them as -- promote his -- is a broadside ballots. So we have got we have and elite culture and a full of commercial popular culture. I do we choke off the -- people line balancing a sort of -- the left. He's not quite as foreign -- this is the thing but this is just besides the point while some parts of culture. On getting themselves confined and cut off from becoming culture with a capital C and becoming physically confined into dedicated venues like opera house as. Between them there was offense and the -- between them and the world of what took office saying natural music real music folk music the music with energy the musical the street and he's saying that that will be to the detriment of we will get to refined. But it too refined to refined artistic music which is losing contact with -- roots in the streets of a slew. In one of the same period in London they're all -- all apparent technical people. And there reprieve counted. And there's a new window between buildings in buildings and talked with."

" This is Marty marks from the music section. Thank you both very much and a column view I mean I think this is really brilliant this discussion. But I have to ask them why parenthesis. Why not dashes or -- these. And in Britain -- the reason I'm saying that is because. With at certain points every time you spoke about another -- in another direction. I kept thinking health. Fertile that was for example that the fragment versus the closed. Work and as I've always thought about the history of European intellectuals. And so forth I've always thought that the romanticism was already. The rebellion against confinement there was ultimately defined by the enlightenment that in this sense the culmination of York. Move your representation of confinement. Is the enlightenment encyclopedia. As the sum him Bonham of of that -- collection of knowledge. But and the romantics revel in fragments the romantics -- in music and poetry. I mean I'm mining areas music but I know that in other areas to look at. Look at the great -- sick by duke and -- for example of 1820s. Which is nothing but fragments. And come health -- that was in the sense part of the the revolution against. Rationality. So. The only reason I bring that up this and I'm hoping Pete could it could talk and then you just mentioned the -- and I was thinking Lloyd isn't Pete talked about newspapers invalid. And broad sides because they were just as much a part of the culture of print in the Shakespeare's day as were books -- votes. If not more. And then of course I'm thinking about Aristotle who is the beginning and isn't isn't the Renaissance is. Impetus towards confinement and categorization. Based on their -- discovery of Arista two million text but. We knew we look at it that way when we look at -- in terms of the -- the infinite -- the ability of human intellect to go in different directions at the same time. Towards confinement and -- Towards the divine and the real the concrete towards the natural in the supernatural we look at it that way what is it really have to do with media. Except perhaps on the grandest scale up on its idea of morality. And print or he'll morality and written culture he doesn't really talk about print culture he talks about a reality in written culture. Which is not quite the same thing. So. If we but if we extended in one direction towards Aristotle this debate this this this opening up of the parenthesis and we depend extended in another direction. By breaking down the parenthesis in the nineteenth century -- in the twentieth. How -- rate relate that to the media scheme that we're talking about new media old media pretty old media old old old media and so forth I don't. I don't see how it all fits together and I think the -- apprentices as itself such a confining. Concept that you are in fact read capitulate the argument that you're trying to undermine herself. I'm -- this -- all -- my thoughts at this point I don't know how you're gonna deal with that it's equipped."

" He -- to say something for us."

" Okay if they haven't. I don't know much about balance and good size but. I can refer people with complete confidence through that work Tiffany stern and Oxford on ephemeral paper. In Shakespeare's time and it's astounding and into the world of London that she describes. Is one in which every conceivable surface. Is it has a built wooden fence post no bills they posted bills you know. Every place. And these could be Clinton bills or advertising performance. Of the playing date could be but it just dozens of things advertisements. But they were they were everywhere and she's document this so we have I and it -- a -- contrasting in my mind the wonderful Olivier film of Henry the fifth. Is a single play bills that. Falls from the sky and then becomes the screen in the credits opening credits you know. But but but it's notable that is the single. And the picture that she's describing it that kind of free paper unbound paper. Unlicensed paper right and regulated paper fraudulent paper paper that contained rumors. Was it was everywhere in. In London 16100 that that's one day to move -- Micro point and other repeat. Little bit later they are so -- about rumor. Governor on the days -- in the media discovery of the egregious and questions of the -- to colonel Christian brotherhood. In 1625 or no date and was. The librarian of racial an important figure in in in that history. Among -- one of the tentative. That look at the resolutions in about how rumors. He says there are three dangerous is common truck there three dangerous. Inventions in our time by which means back to 1450 or so ago gunpowder. And the printing press and Africa the other one it must have been pretty dangerous. Let's something obvious but -- but a printing press in the printing press because any that any. Crazy person with -- no idea about overthrowing the state. Could get a bunch of leaflets. Printed. Rumors about miraculous events could. Could could thrive in a way to go beyond carting them individually from one place. So this sort of an idea that the printing press on lose unlicensed. Irrational. And illicit paper it's is that part of the Shakespearean picture. I mean it is amazing scenarios that she has of descriptions of the young. Lady of the house who will that it was rich enough to have Sarah and would send out the sermon in the morning. To rip all the paper off that she might use this. Off of the walls that off of the posts and bring it home and a pilot related announcement that programs that that that was the newspaper right. At a course -- that they had been pasted back. By somebody else and -- keep. Doing the rounds to keep that city properly pasted over but we don't have that idea of London when we go or you mean when we go to a tourist village like. Stratford or. Oxford. And you know where where we have old buildings we think of them as on. I'm not on encumbered. And on. By graffiti by pasted up paper but they were so that they just a couple of things but broadside to be very important part."

" Yet just make one. One observation here -- The the idea of a --"

" That's. And."

" Very provocative I interest thing for making this thing before and after. But the idea that we are moving to eighty. Post literate society is very hard for me to understand because the entire technological framework. That makes this media. This Immersion media culture possible is super literate. It's it's depends on vast amounts of -- Commentary. More publications and and we in the humanities can even imagine. D.s. Regimes or use constantly and I would also note that the the people who inhabit. The realms of -- social media so and all the different areas of -- popular culture are themselves super literate. They are constantly writing there constantly. Communicating with each other through tax. The level of understanding of the word is. Probably beyond anything it's -- bands so the notion of the practices that we are actually returning to a pre literate society. I think needs to be modified somewhat by saying well. It's it's not either or is both and what we're actually merging into is something that is. Both a new. Secondary morality that is massively supported by eighty super Lyris. And so. We have to deal with that because that's not easy to deal with because. I think. This this idea apprentices. May be giving us. The wrong kind of emphasis that you know were returning to something that was before I don't think that -- as ever going to be recovered but elements of it. And experiences of and of course camp but supported by something that is fundamentally it's it's a little like up. Sometimes I think a wealth and -- the Eli and more like more alike sit down there and grinding mountain creating this possible our culture. Then the you look at hop but now that's not really what's happening -- its -- it's something that's done more complicated so I don't know if you wanna comment connect."

" I just tick -- response to that compress and we'll put two and in defense of the princess is an image. But you're on the Johnson was in what you sit in the sense that the uses all of the new media also put literate. And they old writing. That's the difference. In apprentices there are rice's and regions. There are a few rifles. And many reasons. And of the new wage is one in which you can't really tell the difference between -- and the right to because they old their old writing. They're old writing and communicating with the same freedom that before the princess they hold speak. We all reproducing. With texts. The kind of fluidity. The interaction. And the declining categories that the breakdown in categories between the creator and the receive. The consumer. That -- was there with speech. We we it's all was getting close to him I think -- In his notes for this a new addition all but as well significant amount it's was taught to think about a second to -- literacy. A new kind of literacy which was it's this is so widespread so he's acceptable to people is people are writing to each other. With the same freedom. And same ease the same syntax. They spoke crucial -- Before practice and with -- the -- itself. It's certainly mean. It's provocative it's more it's good is provocative if your flight that's what is good point because it's it's better than. Dashes or series of dot because it insists on a return. Dashes that can be there can be several dashes in a sequence the -- apprentices. Is such. A provocative way of saying. There was this pause one idea was going full with. We stopped we lift that promote what went into an -- idea. Then we came back to the phones like is not going backwards now perhaps I'm wrong to say but going to be right -- hasn't. But we are resuming where we left off. We were moving for the what's the point that we stopped and did something else and now we -- reverting to where we will. And moving on beyond that and it's appropriate -- it just -- say I think in the apprentice -- itself is a human. Grenades and so invention bench from within within -- in the world in the world of print and with regard to. Aristotle. And that -- discovery of classical notions. I made this point but has hit the first time talking about this and I still think it's right although it gets rid of Gutenberg."

" Cultures could move in and out."

" Of this kind of practices through the use a given culture and stone to -- will apprentices. Which I think is what happened in the classical period in in in the Greek Roman classical period there was a kind of it was like ice ages. There's a mini ice age many textual age. In the classical period well. Where -- icing was becoming more dominant but without it belonged to print and then we moved out -- it again in the in the Middle Ages and the -- we Disco with. Come make one last point about. Fragments. Romance fragments is quite right the romance writing was a kind of bid for freedom in writing fragments and not being confined. By the rules and by the conventions. But I bet they do that on purpose. It was self conscious it wasn't that default. Fragments and incomplete -- on the default mode. Before the pretenses and maybe again on differences eighteen different revolt against convention fund it itself is an act. It's rather like the back tinian. Uncontained -- you can't you can't you can't have -- back -- common list rebellion against the -- less fuel than gold is the contained -- So -- while I'm -- the rote romantic romantic fragments. Romantic fragmentation is self conscious fragmentation. Which in a way acknowledges that an old. Is consignment is complete -- it is Clinton."

" As of this of Pete you have enough and I think we should I have to."

" On my own plus patrolman on running humanistic studies. And several lifetimes ago there was a medieval laws. And I just I actually wanted. -- It's actually going to make from kind of linkage him. And I liked -- some concrete examples that. Parentheses doesn't seem to be the right thing because it seems to be. Same but different and in very very different ways for example hierarchy. The Middle Ages was very big are working. The Internet that is -- thing is very flopped. -- I think the difference between production and consumption that oral tradition. You needed to have production everywhere. Or else you would not. You know you if you wanted to play in your town. If you wanted to -- mystery for you put it on. You know the period skills for -- home. If I wanna see something darkness go to you to. On the fact is that many more people can produce but you don't necessarily have to produce you can just consumed. Much more than you could always consumed before with many more choices. And yeah. Another one last -- welcoming this with the whole idea of containment. And how -- protect. In the Middle Ages. Not so much in the oral tradition in the book tradition. With the whole idea of the high protect the infantry notion of the hypertext. In the -- moralism and in the whole movement. And those things only become really viable. Now in the digital."

" Here's here's I would I would see that says. Compatible. With the parenthesis. If we acknowledged differences as multiple. Comprising several. Calibrate its were parole for the parenthesis. And and that some some forms of textual communication like the -- all the unum. The text which is commented the text which comprises some comments. And that we I I I'm I'm happy about that in the sense that. But the way in modern times we -- we can freely comment moment just a text. Is taking his back not merely to VA hero of speech but to a manuscript here. In the sense that with a manuscript it's cool when -- speaking. It's hard to distinguish between the night the fuel source of voice in the voice of the drops. And with writing you couldn't as a as with. Or -- of manuscripts. You could have the scrambled text and then you could have the and notations -- the -- comments and they couldn't look as a whole forum especially the management corporate they can look as sole authority to. That they differ in degree -- and inclined. From the the main text and then with the printed book you -- join it will seek. That that you distinguish between the the text itself which is printed. And then the and notations are clearly am and they belong to a different a different category. Of all of communication -- soda --"

" I think I can. I'm I'm I'm comfortable with the treatment."

" Mary Fuller from the literature section. So one of the things that I kept thinking really almost from the beginning if -- talk with that I didn't recognize this in early modern books that kind of -- that you're talking -- bound. The sort of the economist -- Close the bordered and so on and so forth. What I didn't recognize was an idea of the book that is Pete Wentz and dates that certainly you know one finds in the eighties and an earlier decades that strikes me that in some sense it's a very. Modern idea of the -- and a very modern practice of the block and practice of Reading the book. I don't recognize set in the early modern text that I work with which are compilations. Of put together by the editors and if it's effectively hyper links to all kinds of contacts outside the body including old you -- by the editor. Compilations made by the editor very popular kind of -- And attended by the editor and attended by readers used in practice it's that are tendered -- typical moderation of things that. Only don't look like networks. If we don't understand the kind of books they are the -- effect of our readership of them are loss of the local context. And so it you know and and then it you know as I was sitting I had a lot of time to think about this -- I was sitting on stops. This is making me really -- of distrust the larger narrative of the parenthesis is an interruption which at the same time you have moved away from sort of repeatedly -- likes it's much more. Mobile and local and people come in and out of -- and someone and so forth. It strikes me that. You know my ability to work with these early modern books in the with the I have the last few years is effectively being. Networks sort of full of -- and so on and so forth is very much a function of the moment. Historical moment which I'm doing that work. Because I think that respective wasn't wouldn't have been available thirty years ago. Right and so what it seems to me that the digital era has reactivated. Certain kinds of loss potential. In the Gutenberg H. That we're never not fair but we're not seen by us for a period just as it seems to be reactivated in certain kinds of lost potential in the manuscript and -- On -- can make that into question and I'll just leave it to respond to -- wish."

" You say you wrote important books. Does it it is that a transitional for a moment or -- into the eighteenth nineteenth and as you say it's more. I I think that's fair enough that the group and apprentices is is cumulative. And increases in depth story increases in a month intensity. As time goes -- so it will take some time to get to the time all. The kind of book I'm imagining. And I like BI I like I like it is on a -- course and drove to a -- The digital age is helping us to find things that will live that we couldn't really see people handle before. In in in the appearance."

" Does that. Do you get these compilations of the nineteenth century that they just don't I don't work in the nineteenth century so I couldn't really say I wouldn't wanna say that they don't occur them. But -- mean it's it's it's got it's going to be very it's going to be modeled it's going Disco and it's -- to be transitional did not mean that."

" But -- but thank you for -- I've been waiting to -- the spoken to the table. For quite some time now what I mean by news that the kind of contained book is just want. This is was a facsimile. This is what they did to Shakespeare. Shakespeare's plays which would design the performance and Shakespeare's plays which wasn't terribly original -- at times it has played which well in some places rewrite of existing plays. And which deployed traditional materials. In traditional ways in Shakespeare's plays which -- themselves subjected to. Enormous intervention. By the activism which would take him around from place to place and -- by the act does not always very. Accurately. That was the -- planes that living pretty apparent technical uncontained. Culture of highways and jump options textual highways injunctions and real highways injunctions. It was imprisoned. Will thank heavens because otherwise you wouldn't have the place but because we can just say thank you thank thank you but. But by ups of the U the print just this is meant to say this this is a facsimile. But this'll this'll be something like it all of it's it's a box it's considered to be the complete works. Complete place. All of that and all thought. And all the plays on complete all the plays on claimed to be in -- so more authentic versions. Than had been available individually previously and here it is. It all these say all the that the -- the text the text is. Within its margins. With a very a very careful line and around the detect -- actual books don't stop crawling out. Off the page and then it prints it. In that press the pages of fold it. Into gatherings and stick the gap means -- stitch together and the that the volume. Is being green blue -- And it. Given covers and the compass -- on stitched together world glued together and the book is puts into its case. And Shakespeare and his living world. Is carefully. Encapsulated. And then what you give and thank you for this but this chunks of think he shines citation. The fetus should stick approach but -- bunch -- Shakespeare into a thing. You can start to relate to it. In -- and -- another of them sexual -- and I've had great pleasure over the years in and brought to a small. So -- from my collection. Of slightly unhealthy at that votes multiple Shakespeare's plays. If you go to. The -- the complete works. -- advertisement for the leather bound edition. All of the option of Shakespeare complete works and exquisite. Edition. Bound bound in dock green lit up. Gilt edged pages -- And with the sort of special the Christmas Michelin Shakespeare's stand. I have the good enough and all of those -- which takes the complete works. Saint the complete works exquisite blue. -- And then. This is the -- and the often complete works. Balance. In genuine maroon -- With golden -- title -- marbled and papers and a ribbon mock up. Exquisitely presented volume that would appeal to book like this and Shakespeare lovers. Throughout the world and that'll supposed to read it -- just."

" You stroke it."

" years ago been around and seeing nationally not. Attempt first of -- little biased I tend to be dubious about the use of the parentheses this that are officials instead of its kind I think there's more continuity. In the forces that came before and during our continuous and always there and in parallel all the time in different person cynicism proportions but they're continuous. Now it passed and it will be in the future also I think media history tends to be that. One form of media doesn't replace another as much as it tends to be continuous and additives of the books will continue in the forces of the books. People will make their e-book readers hold just a single book can contain it very carefully. And stories -- continue to improve to the point where it will be long term and permanent. So it's not that it's just gonna go away but you didn't mention that in the -- if you do use pregnancies. And you get to the point where you say okay well comes after is different you have said you do know that what comes after will be forever impacted -- what is inside different disease. So even if he used the I'm just curious how would you represent what comes after as being impacted by Iowa came within. Have you thought about what she would do to make it quite clear that what is after has been forever changed but what is inside the currencies. Sales in the imagery. Some visual orders -- probably -- but even if it's just going."

" Chance that a thing I think -- the print apprentices in itself. Suggests. In if you -- some tactical. Analogy and says sentences changed. But delve into the incident in terms of what it that's it previously that we. It's a cut through the ocean to where we vote counting on -- liftoff but. And I'm trying to who I haven't succeeded -- in the president to three dimensional program trying in indicate that the that the matter of time. Because it does just having the one -- in the pace -- what we go to the same time and it's it's complete and total that's the worst thing about princes. But one of my diagrams had 212. Just a symbolic indication that they have their own multiple currencies room. And once it in the colon. Something that when I get I couldn't get out once I've I've I've been using three kinds of brackets and mind so much material that is the realm bracket in the square bracket and among -- ones that it needs I know I mean if you're if you're visual I I I and I need some way. To multiply the lines to multiply that figure this in the lines representing change but I don't have -- I also need some means. To indicate that the that the time factor in the old things have the same time with regard to the continent's I've been thinking about continuity. You're quite right I'm I'm very much aware that that every time something new is introduced. What's fail most of it carries along -- you thought about that. And then both for example. Print itself. Comes along and on -- open in addition to the written book. And in many ways the printed book. Doesn't qualitatively doesn't too little -- There's not much difference between a printed book and direct I want. In that sense the militants but said it struck me that but surely it it is not a relevant that there were just so many moral but so what would ever do whatever it is a book to us. -- Multiplies quantity so it it'll it'll have a -- impact there was some some it was there already. It becomes endemic becomes comes because -- could contribute."

" In short I'm and I believe the last comment says Pete. And thank you offer very stimulating conversation. And it."

" The note through of the idea that takes viewers cared the evaluation of the book because. That evidence is the country. As wonderful the dramatist Shakespeare once there's a strong anti theatrical. It element to his art. And the stage doesn't always is and always portrayed it's. A place that truth and you know it and it's -- that often and portrayed negatively and if for instance in sonnet where he's -- My nature is substitute. Almost two when it works and like that tires and so you know the data via the profession of being a playwright. -- to doing his nature and then he goes on to say public manners public cousins. Get or something like that figures accurate is. But the idea is that his profession of writing for the public stage is degrading and and so you know this is this is part of the portrait. A Shakespeare not that it was all that he thought obviously not you know it's not to say that's the -- targets part of this story. And another it is that there is a look. A lot of evidence that. Shakespeare. Was confined by the state. Rather than by the book and some this is in look at Lucas earns arguments in Shakespeare. The dramatic. Dramatic literary arts -- exactly -- at Geneva and it it it this is just one example of a good -- very telling one. So a player like Henry the fifth which has been read. Pacifist play radical play radical. Reproach true authority to toward to. The state and so on in the twentieth century. And as and as often as an authoritarian play in and hero play. But the grounding of -- opinions with as radical in some measure comes entirely. From almost entirely. From parts of the play. That -- That aren't in the Foleo and not in the court though because the public stage was more. More assiduously. Sensor so. For example I mean something think of one example but it's -- many ways in which. The war against France is relative size and called into question. Is done by the work of the chorus who pops up between each act and who is entirely absent. In the corner that is published. During Shakespeare's life and is likely to be closer to performance than volume version or the passage in the fourth course where. He's comparing Henry king Henry returning triumph to London and to the arrival of the other -- general Essex from Ireland. Bringing rebellion broke you don't sort. A line that hovers between having. Defeated -- maybe -- defeat the Irish rebels but also maybe has actually happened in real life and for which he was executed. He brought rebellion home to London challenged the -- and unsuccessful. Revolt against the state so and that's the only. Topical references to current events that's undoubtedly in the -- and all that in the -- None of it is and he's in the Cornell so. You do have some freedoms in print. That are striking sometimes. Relative to being hauled in for what might be performed on the public stage. So it it can really work both ways also performance can be confining the way. Actors did their parts in Shakespeare's time could be very confining. Because they didn't have the hopeful played into it read through they didn't read the book. They had accused their hearts in the -- in part due in part so the freedom of the performer. Was we would've thought that severely limit. You know and actually directed it wasn't it wasn't free and as time of course I was there was criticism and six -- representative of the freedom on this stage. Of the clowns anymore and in comments on of that period outside this. Parenthesis or later. You would you get the notion that that. After the restoration. That there's an authority in performance just as there's. A confining authority. In print the confining authority in print comes from what's on the page the confining authority from performance. Consists in the need to establish. The that. And a better team for example that the leading actor that had learned his parting comment on selling so who learned from Francis Taylor could -- from the -- You know and -- and there's a great deal of attention to creating these genealogy. Of performance authority. That go back just that fetish I spoke to us. To the notion. The controlling there so I don't think there's -- panacea in performance or you know that of that one of these forms. Is necessarily. Only confining him and other liberating it's complicated. Story Shakespeare's case I think that the case is pretty good that he was both -- literary artist as well as day. Theatrical. Professional."

" And lest we forget every age invents its own forms of confinement we now have copyright. And the Internet is a perfect answer perfect role for itself. We still work with these things -- thank you very much for a very stimulating conversation."

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